Vibha Rishi: Hi, I'm Vibha, and today we're going to look back into Titan pre-history for the Chatterbox Podcast of Titan. It's named after me - the chatterbox! And I'm here with Dwarki, who will say a few words to kick us off.
B G Dwarkanath: Thank you, Vibha. My name is Dwarka. I am employee #2 of Titan, joined Titan in 1985. In reality, people like Vibha and then Bhaskar, they're actually, their employee number is 00- actually because they started working on the Titan project when they were associated with Tata Press; that's way back to 1984, but when the Titan office started in 1985 in Bangalore, I was one of the first ones to join and I'm really proud of that.I took possession of the empty land for the factory at Hosur.
Vibha Rishi: So initially... The government would not allow the Tata’s into watches because it was reserved for the government sector. That's when you were…
B G Dwarkanath: Correct
Vibha Rishi: ...you know, taking HMT to new heights. And then finally the government said yes, but then they said you can make watches as long as there are 75% mechanical wind up watches.
B G Dwarkanath: Correct
Vibha Rishi: So we were not going to do that, so that was another two years of, you know, going after the government and so on and asking them, begging them. Finally, once they opened us to quartz watches, we were ready to go.
B G Dwarkanath: Yeah, I remember that very well because I was still associated with Titan in some form or the other. In fact, that letter from the Directorate General of Technical Development, they called it broad banding. They said that you need not stick to 80% mechanical and 20% quarts and all that; you can make whatever you want.
I brought that letter to our meeting at West End, if you remember, and all through the night Mr Desai thought about it, thought about it and then we had not decided anything in the meeting, Next day, morning we were all very curious and he said, "Yes, we will make only quartz. We have to be contemporary, we have to be futuristic and we won't do mechanical watches." That's a historic decision, I think.
Vibha Rishi:Yes, yes and also not to get pulled into doing 80% just to bide the time. That would have been disastrous, and I think he was a very, very wise man, ahead of his time
B G Dwarkanath: Exactly
Vibha Rishi: We started by putting together a grid of square watches, round watches, gold watches, steel watches, men, women.
B G Dwarkanath: By colour
Vibha Rishi: By colour… So we made a grid, and we pretty much made it up because, other than HMT which basically made the Sona watch many times over, other than HMT there was only the smuggled market.
B G Dwarkanath: Correct
Vibha Rishi: So we used to go around looking at the smuggled market and so on. So anyway, we put this grid together. The funny part is, two years later, that grid got published in Economic Times and it said "industry sources" and we had literally made it up! We had pulled it out of thin air, you know?
B G Dwarkanath: Yeah
Vibha Rishi: But we used to go to Basel a lot for design inspiration.
B G Dwarkanath : Yeah, yeah But before that what happened, you know, because I had worked with a lot of Hong Kong suppliers who make cases dial hands and all that, Mr Desai and Mr Manchanda said you two of you from marketing and from manufacturing please go to Hong Kong and see what kind of people are available there, what kind of sources are there, what kind of products they make and all that. remember it was November 1985, we went and camped there for almost 15 days, I think and then I took you around to lot of case makers, dial makers. That's where we started picking up these models. And the first case maker whom we visited was one company called K&S.
Vibha Rishi: Yeah, yup
B G Dwarkanath: The owner is Mr Kwok and Schultz
Vibha Rishi: Kwok
B G Dwarkanath: And it is there, I very well remember, we picked up the two cases 142 and 111 - Gents and ladies - The round, top assemble models and he also liked it and those were the first models that were picked up.And incidentally, he became supplier number one to Titan.
Vibha Rishi: So we used to, we started by just, you know, tearing things out of magazines and putting together a basic kind of look and then to bring it to life really we went to Hong Kong, we went to Taiwan, as well Korea.
B G Dwarkanath: Yeah Taiwan, Korea
Vibha Rishi: And on my first visit to Taiwan, we went to Korea, that's correct, and we shopped around. There were also some suppliers in Europe, but they were too expensive, basically. And we tried to shop around and see what was available, brought a lot of stuff which was you know they shipped it, mostly. But there's a funny story here as well. So one time - this is the second round - we were going to Switzerland for the Basel thing and we wanted to show our, you know, by that time we had you know more or less an idea of what we were make going to make and I remember we used to have these suitcases with compartments for the watches and so I remember the going to the Delhi Customs - Bombay Customs.
B G Dwarkanath: Nightmare
Vibha Rishi: And telling them this I said you know, "I want to declare." They opened and they looked at me they were in... Those days, Hindi films, the main villains were watch smugglers you know, and here we were taking… So I said no no we're taking it out of the country. We just want you to certify it, so that we can bring it back in, you know. But they were all basically... There was a lot of disbelief that we could do it. There was a lot of disbelief that the Tatas could do something which was consumer relevant, they did not have a big history till then. And that, you know, what do you know you know? But, we proved them wrong.
B G Dwarkanath: Do you remember, we collected a lot of samples from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea, and all that we put them together we put them into dummy cases, dummy dial, dummy hands with straps and we made a display in the West End Hotel? In fact, I have a photograph of that. I will share it. Okay, on those thermocol pieces.
Vibha Rishi: Exactly, exactly So sometimes they won't fit so we would just pin them like butterflies on the thermocol.
B G Dwarkanath: We had invited several VIPs including the General manager of West End Hotel, Mr Karumbaiah (Karumbaiah, ya) and then Mr Gore was there and people like that they would... We had requested them to look at, take a look at all these models and what they felt about it and give their opinion and things like that. I think that's how, I think, our first collection.
Vibha Rishi: Yes, yes we did a lot of iteration. And I remember my friend who was an investment banker came to this West End thing and he told me I did not believe after seeing that it would ever work because it was all sort of disaggregated. You had to use your imagination to see what it would look like if you put it all together. At that time ,we had no advertising agency either. That also came later.
B G Dwarkanath: Correct
Vibha Rishi: And once they saw our range of watches they were so struck by it that they just played Xerxes's favorite tune from Mozart to just pictures of the watches one after the other, after the other, and that ad is still remembered by everyone.
B G Dwarkanath: I think that's when it was called as International collection of watches
Vibha Rishi: That's right, that's right There was no need to extol its virtues, because you know pratyaksh tha .You know no pramaan
Vibha Rishi: Other than the watches you remember the case so, sorry I mean I know that you have long, HMT watches used to lie like the whole way of merchandising watches was flat literally coffin looking thing and with the watches lying flat with a body bag over them and the
B G Dwarkanath: Box was like a coffin actually
Vibha Rishi: Yes yeah so what we did was we lifted it out of that and remember that first which delayed our launch the first box where basically you got it out from the it's plastic and it was a self display
B G Dwarkanath: Correct
Vibha Rishi: For smaller units by itself yeah
B G Dwarkanath: Correct, correct exactly. So that it would be easy for display even in the showrooms and then there is no need to dispense with the Box yeah you're right plus as you rightly pointed out HMT watches were little flat
B G Dwarkanath: Yeah
B G Dwarkanath: Whereas in our case Mr.Desai was particular that it should hug the wrist, and then he was very particular you know so many things
Vibha Rishi: Yes yes
B G Dwarkanath: We learned from you know and. He was so critical about color. In HMT days, you know, we had only three colors - black, white, and yellow, dark yellow, and light yellow. That's all. The first time I heard of Pantone color reference is from Mr Desai. And he would look at each time so carefully matching of that dial color with the case and the reflection on the side of the case he would watch that he would go near a window see the reflection whether the curvature is proper and things like that amazing
Vibha Rishi: Attention to detail was amazing
B G Dwarkanath: Once he came to our when the watch plant was under construction the Assembly Hall was under construction and there was a big window pain the window pain had little waviness it had nothing to do with function but they was particular please changes window pan and so critical we learned a lot from him and…
Vibha Rishi: Thanks for reminding me - Shout out to BN Yalamalli who was the better part of our duo.He was the person who had the job of putting things together from pictures into, making sure they all fit each other and he was a man of very few words and now of course he's a prolific writer so good shout out to him as well.and then we had the Sona we had the Sona Towers office and our first our first showroom you remember we had that even the..
B G Dwarkanath: Safina Plaza
Vibha Rishi: Safina Plaza yes that's right even there the way we displayed it correct was modular but very, very easy to look at
B G Dwarkanath: And displayed range wise you know we had so many ranges Royale, Gold
Vibha Rishi: Fastrack…
B G Dwarkanath: Fastrack
Vibha Rishi: Classique
B G Dwarkanath: Exacta…
Vibha Rishi: Exacta, we just made this stuff up you know. Even Titan was made up from Tamil Nadu Industries and Tatas, you know so yeah literally you know
B G Dwarkanath: Later on for Titan I came out with an acronym 'Total Integrated Thinking and Action Now' that is Titan
Vibha Rishi: And I remember back in the day there was Anil Manchanda,
B G Dwarkanath: Correct
Vibha Rishi: Bhaskar, Mr Desai…
B G Dwarkanath: Mr Ramdas
Vibha Rishi: And myself. Mr Ramdas was, at that time, still with the Press. Then from this team of four, we expanded. We got Mr Ramdas, and we got Ronnie involved as well, and then there was you, Mr Amita, Yalamalli who joined us from Titan and slowly the clan started to…
B G Dwarkanath: All the first
Vibha Rishi: Yes, the clan started to expand and we were working out of the West End most of the time.
B G Dwarkanath: Gulmohar Suite, that's where Titan was born actually.
Vibha Rishi: That's right, that's right, that's right back then before Titan went into jewelry. I think the one big insight that we were working on for the first range was that people don't you know at that time remember there was like 125th of a second its accuracy that people are not buying watches accuracy is taken as red people are buying watches as pieces of jewelry and I remember by the time I left Xerxes was already looking at using the the tooling for the straps right as a form of jewelry and then of course that went into full-on jewelry and you never looked back
B G Dwarkanath: Right
Vibha Rishi: When we were starting up, one of the things that I remember Xerxes kept saying is when we cross 100 crores, we'll have a party, when we'll cross 100 crores, we'll do a dinner, and then the 100 crores happened and it seemed suddenly like everyone had forgotten because by that time we were galloping ahead... I remember the full page ad Safina Plaza people were mobbing the place there's no denying that the market was thirsty for a fashionable watch
B G Dwarkanath: Correct
Vibha Rishi: That you could rely on
B G Dwarkanath: That's when I coined PPPPP okay 'Personal Position that Promotes Personality' So Titan did that
Vibha Rishi: So you know we did some very early market research I remember basically we did a usage and attitude study more around what people's attitudes towards watches are what role it plays in their lives how they go about the process of purchase and so on what we did not do was to say okay can you choose between Model A and model y because that is asking too much of customers and so yes it was a bit of a risk on even if we had asked them it would still have been a risk on how much to produce of which but you know subsequent to that we got into a lot of research but mostly you don't ask customers to project what they want from what they haven't seen
B G Dwarkanath: Yeah that reminds me you want to talk about the non-traditional outlets that Titan started not going to real watch dealers in the beginning
Vibha Rishi: Right right so there were two kinds of watch dealers in India at that time there was the HMT dealer who thought that they had found that place in the sitar and didn't need to move their fingers anymore and
B G Dwarkanath: They're permanent there
Vibha Rishi: Yeah, just that one tune is enough the other was the was the smuggled watch sellers and across Fort and Fountain there were lots and lots of there that was a good place to go to look at what's what people are buying but they were not good people you wanted to work with so we literally had to do non-traditional Outlets as we call them and create a whole distribution stream with its proximity more to Fashion than to you know devices
B G Dwarkanath: I think that is one of the critical success factor
Vibha Rishi: That's right
B G Dwarkanath: In fact whenever I conducted an induction program for the new entrance I always used to say this if you want to know the value of 1 second ask PT Usha who missed the gold the I think bronze medal by whiskers 0.1 second if you want to know the value of a minute as somebody who is waiting outside the toilet door and waiting for the door to open if you want to know the value of a month ask a woman who has delivered a premature baby at 8 months if you want to know the value of one year ask a student who has failed and is sitting at home for one year if you want to know the value of Titan as somebody who has worked in Titan for 5 years resign went elsewhere worked there for 6 months and has come back to Titan ask them they will tell you the values of Titan you know as I said you know it is just integration people and it is a it's a people's company
B G Dwarkanath: In fact it is people first company in fact Titan had a program called people first the people first was done first and then subsequently it was after that customer so that is the kind of importance that Titan gave to people it took care of people and then people felt that it is one family you know and the kind of meetings that we had kind of cultural programs that we had Etc basically it is all bringing people together bring and creating that Oneness I think that is a Titan when you when you joined Titan or rather when you formed Titan what what came to your mind can you tell me in three words
Vibha Rishi: Yes I'd say Titan was stylish Innovative and can do I think these three words well although the last is two words but I think that was it really…
B G Dwarkanath: I totally agree with you
Vibha Rishi: I think one of the most remarkable things I found was that when we were in the beginning there were actually two cultures there was a tata culture and far more design forward and then there was the HMT cover culture fer Precision you know doing things with detail and so on and I think between Mr Amita and Xerxes I think they were able to manage these two and the integration so well that in fact there was never any partisanship around that as well I think everyone just got on with the job and when we’re gung-ho and kudos to both of them because for Mr Amita it was an adventure and for Xerxes it was a way of adjusting as well yeah
B G Dwarkanath: I totally agree with you because HMT, you know, public sector lot of formalities lot of procedures and if you want to buy something you know there were some lot of justification to be given and then it has be approved at several levels and things like that when I join Titan it's a total transformation it's all about trust Titan means trust Tata stands for that you know the acronym that I have for Tata is trust and trust all the way the same thing was there in Titan too and when we had to purchase equipments Mr Desai and Manchandani would ask who is your best equipment supplier so and so which is the best equipment just go and buy pick up the phone call place the order over look at the amount of trust the senior people had on us unbelievable unbelievable.
Vibha Rishi: And I remember someone took this dictum really far and bought a bunch of spare parts in his briefcase and brought it here and then we had to like scramble to the Customs Department and declare it post factor so thanks a ton this has been wonderful it's given me an opportunity to catch up with you again and thanks to chatter box that we are able to do this in a chattering sort of way
B G Dwarkanath: Correct correct thanks to chatter box and thanks to Titan took us back to 1985 you know and great fun it was great working for Titan and we are really proud if you look at where Titan stands today it's amazing wonderful.
